Transgender equity bill fuels bathroom dispute

Patrons of an art exhibit in SF might possibly not be representative of the general public.

Would your mom be comfortable with M-to-F transgenders in the bathroom with her? Your aunt who lives on a farm in the Midwest?

Would your mom be comfortable with M-to-F transgenders in the bathroom with her? Your aunt who lives on a farm in the Midwest?

My mother is just fine with it. My father's baptist relatives on the other hand? Eh screw 'em.

I agree that it's not representative of the general public.

I just think that the general public should quit whining, suck it, and get over themselves and their prudishness.

I just think that the general public should quit whining, suck it, and get over themselves and their prudishness.

That should have read "suck it up," in case anyone was thinking I was suggesting something else...

I just assumed he was a Kathy Griffin fan. ;-)

My father's baptist relatives on the other hand? Eh screw 'em.

I am hoping your day job is not in PR.

Public restrooms are there for the use and convenience of the public. Telling the public to suck it is not going to win anyone over to your point of view.

Telling the general public to suck it up is not significantly different.

Telling the public to suck it is not going to win anyone over to your point of view.

I don't know about that.

Sometimes we need to quit being so damn sensitive and just say what is on our minds. I am sick and tired of all the "PC" crap.

Eventually someone needs to speak their mind when it comes to all this menial bull@!$%# that we discuss ad nauseam.

Public restrooms are there for the use and convenience of the public. Telling the public to suck it is not going to win anyone over to your point of view.

I agree. Forcing them to do it, until they discover that they never actually had a problem with it in the first place, will.

You, ma'am, have a stronger constitution than I. Those toilet seats in those football areans are a far cry from "pristine."

have a stronger constitution than I

I just know to "hover" better than you. I am a pro!

Besides when you gotta go, you gotta go.

About 10 years ago I worked in a workplace that had about 250 employees. We had a huge men's restroom, a huge women's restroom, and a small restroom off in a corner of the building that was unisex. In my 3rd year of working there we hired a transgendered person. So as not to discriminate, management made every restroom in the building unisex. That was far from a popular decision. I was only there for another 3 weeks after that decision so I don't know how it eventually panned out.

My current office has 19 people and we have a unisex restroom. Aside from the fact that some of the women seem to frequently try to walk in without knocking first, it has worked out. I think the guys are too chivalrous because none of us would even attempt to walk in without knocking first because there would likely be hell to pay. The women don't quite see it that way when they need to "use the facilities" though.

no i think that the sexual predators line was addressing the sick twisted person that would try and attack the ladies by pretending to be transgendered.

Emphasising the need for unisex toilets as a third set, rather than deinstitutionalise the other two. Besides in all transitioning transpeople, there are periods of ambiguity, in which they would not feel comfortable as either female or male.

Should a business be required to hire a transgendered person in a customer facing position in a situation where it will materially impact sales?

Yes. That's how we change peoples' minds. That's how we force people to get over their own petty bigotries.

And, by the way, hiring practices that discriminate against transgendered people are illegal in the United States.

Should a business be required to hire a transgendered person in a customer facing position in a situation where it will materially impact sales? I'm thinking like a bait shop, strip club, bridal gown store, etc., places where people will generally not like their gender roles being messed around with and will go elsewhere.

WTF Thay have the right to have a job just like anyone else PERIOD!

You raise an interesting but complex point.

Let's take your hypothetical -- a transgendered employee in a setting where gender roles are very unambiguous (like the ones you mentioned) -- and let's substitute race. Would it then be ok to say that an employer doesn't have to higher a qualified person of a certain race because he or she believe it would impact sales?

And, by the way, hiring practices that discriminate against transgendered people are illegal in the United States.

No, that is flat out wrong. There are laws that prevent hiring discrimination in some states, but it is only at the state level. Same for homosexuality. The federal level only bars discrimination based on race, religion, gender (traditional M/F), and country of origin. If a business is not constrained by a state law, they are free to refuse to hire someone based on sexual orientation or gender identity.

Would it then be ok to say that an employer doesn't have to higher a qualified person of a certain race because he or she believe it would impact sales?

Yes, barring laws to the contrary. If I own a business, my only goal is to make money to support my family, not to raise social awareness or further anyone else's personal agenda. We have had laws on the federal level preventing race based hiring discrimination for a long time now though, so at no point during my lifetime has such behavior been legal, nor do I wish for it to return.

In my above post, "higher" should be "hire." Note to self: don't sniff glue while posting to Newsvine.

On the topic of unisex bathrooms, should they have urinals? Urinals use less than 1/3 of the water of a sit down toilet, so they're far better for the environment for anyone who can use them.

They can make urinal stalls. Urinals are water efficient.

I think the unisex toilets would be smaller than regular public toilets - the idea behind this is that the 'trans' or ambiguous sex is very much a minority. They would be for people who feel uncomfortable in the ladies or mens and for people in emergencies. Since it is a minority, there is going to be less of a population flow for there to be vast benefits for urinals. Besides most m2f transsexuals won't want to stand to pee, f2m on the other hand...well I'm sure they can aim for the pot.

Maybe we should adopt a 'freegan' or a water friendly method and only flush 1 in 3, that's what some radical environmentalists do, the disgust factor though is high.

It is not that hard to figure out which gender you are. Unzip and take a look. How stupid can they be?

there will still be a number of sexual predators who will lurk in the closed area, wait for a lone female and attack

Women would actually be safer because there would be men going in and out of the time.

I don't know, many times I find myself alone in the bathroom. At least I hope I am alone. I would be willing to give it a try if it would truly help someone, but you can bet your last dollar I would accompany my teen (boy or girl) to the bathroom no matter how loud the protests.

The line for the women's restroom is always so long at any public facility - add in the men's room and it'll speed things right up.

I read something years ago that said that on average women take about 90 seconds longer in the restroom than men do. In order to compensate, they recommended that architects of public buildings put in 5 women's toilet facilities for every 3 men's toilet facilities. I don't know how they determined that the 5:3 ratio was ideal, but apparently most architects don't plan adequately for the differing restroom needs.

Most women I know say that women's restrooms are far worse than men's restrooms. My wife has told me horror stories of women leaving poop on the toilet seat (because they didn't want to sit down) or leaving discarded tampons or pads on the floor and menstrual blood where it doesn't belong. From a germ standpoint, researchers have found a higher concentration of bad bacteria on the floors and surfaces of women's restrooms than in men's restrooms. We have a unisex restroom in my building and it is always kept very neat.

At my starbucks the guy's bathroom is usually way cleaner than the women's. Unless one that we have dubbed "the porno pooper" comes in for his coffee..... duisgusting. lol

We have a unisex restroom in my building and it is always kept very neat.

There is always urine all over the floor near the urinal in my office bathroom. I am assuming that is not the case for the women's room, but I don't know.

There is always urine all over the floor near the urinal in my office bathroom

I had a similar problem at my office. The men's room was disgusting by Thursday. Our building only gets cleaned once a week on Saturdays. I made the men take turns cleaning the men's room on Thursdays. Guess what happened, they started aiming better.

It's not like it's hard anyways... got a friggin hose to aim, not like it's just an explosion of pee out the front of you. I guess for some it is.

Well yes, urine is kind of a disinfectant, if you're wounded in the desert somewhere you should use your urine to clean and disinfect the wound - men's bathroom floors are covered in urine, so you're set for a hygenic time. *warps*

don't pee-explode at your computer... keyboards are a nightmare to clean stuff out of.