Why more women are only too happy to stay childless...

Accidently falling pregnant usually means birth control did not work. Most women don't use their birth control correctly or the prescription isn't high enough for their body and don't even know it. Condoms don't work all the time either.

jekazu,

That is wonderful that you chose to adopt. It is true that there are so many children who need a home. I admire your choice.

Jekazu, The absolutely most unselfish thing to do is to adopt a child. Everyone loves a baby (just like a puppy or kitten) but does not want to take on a child. Thank you for caring for one who needed a family.

so women should just strife to have children because we can? - every woman in the world should have babies? - for what purpose? - why must women have children or be called selfish? - i think it is selfish of people to have children in an overpopulated world when there are starving children in this world - THAT IS SELFISH

That's right, you're baby making machines... nothing more. Now get to work! :: rolls eyes ::

6: The selfishness expressed by so many American women in not wanting to have children does not amaze me at all.

It is not selfish for a woman to choose to be childfree or to focus upon herself. Why should a woman dedicate her life to a choice she does not want? No one expects a man to do that.

Yeshua said, "For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." Luke 23:29

When would that be except today when our world is overpopulated and our earth is dying?

Given a global survival perspective, the women who choose to be childfree are the most selfless women on the planet and those who give birth are the selfish ones.

Eleanor Roosevelt talked about how women mother the world. This is a commonly understood tenet in those who believe in the sacred feminine. Childfree women choose a different path to exhibit their talents and contribute to the betterment of society. In this day and age, those alternate paths are needed far more than bearing more children.

Why should a woman dedicate her life to a choice she does not want? No one expects a man to do that.

What ?!! Tell that to my last girl friend .

That said , I am in complete sympathy with your choice .

Loretta,

Your comment was exactly on point. I like the term "childfree". It is so accurate to say that we (and women who do have children are not an exception but they definitely have less time) mother the world.

In the work I have done, in the various places I have lived, I have been mothered (I do not have one of my own) and I have mothered. That is a two way gift.

Thanks for your insight.

Mothers with children do have less time to mother the world, but after their children are grown, they often turn their attention to doing exactly that. Eleanor Roosevelt was one of those mothers. She accomplished a great amount of good.

Women's rights are being promoted around the world, primarily by women who are mothering their country and bringing it to a better place via championing women's rights. Nations that put women's rights high on their list of priorities do better in all realms of endeavor.

Women are also leaders in anti-war movements, civil rights movements and in movements to heal the earth. So they too are mothering the world, hoping to bring about changes that benefit us all.

Women in the workplace also mother their companies. Their focus on team work and caring about other employees provide a positive benefit for all employees and for the company itself. Stats show that women in upper management brings about greater profitability.

There are many ways women contribute to our communal well-being, but there is only one path that leads to hostility toward childfree women: patriarchal beliefs.

Patriarchy is founded upon the subjugation of women. Part of that need is to force women to bear heirs for husbands. That was the original basis for marriage. While women can no longer be legally forced into marriage and childbearing in this country, that is not true around the world.

In this country, the coercion is legally limited to harassment, intimidation and insults. That is what is behind the emotional assaults on women who choose to be childfree. Those who are doing the emotional assaults are trying to enforce the rigid roles imposed by patriarchy. Let us hope these closed minds become a thing of the past when all people realize the good that is done by women who choose to remain childfree.

Bravo! It always takes me by surprise when you post statements that are so concise. You make many good points; and yes, once children leave home many women continue to accomplish a great deal, and nurture their own passion for the good that we all benefit from.

Usually I am completely taken by surprise when women assume I either a) have some medical issue that has prevented me from having a child, or b) have gone through extensive medical procedures that just didn't "take".

I have also known women who state "Who will take care of you when you are old?" If that isn't a selfish statement! All I can figure out is they chose to have "caretakers" instead of children. What a burden for the child; already having a "job" prior to birth. My response to that is that expectation can turn around; and not in a good way. There are no guarantees.

The other thing I have heard is "people ought to have a license to have children." Women and men. Plenty of times that has occurred to me when I see certain behaviors by women who have children and simply do not care for them or appreciate them.

I have also known women who state "Who will take care of you when you are old?" If that isn't a selfish statement! All I can figure out is they chose to have "caretakers" instead of children.

I've heard the same argument toward women who choose to be single. It doesn't make sense because women outlive men. If we need to consider relationships from that aspect, then we should only consider lesbian relationships because both women are likely to live longer.

There is no guarantee that children will take care of their elderly parents either. They may not survive that long or, if they do, they may not make that choice. In most families, the majority of the children do not take care of their elderly parents. If the parents are lucky, at least one of them will, but they may not.

No adult should have a child based on what they perceive that child will do for them. Their interests should be focused on whether or not they can provide for the child in all the needs a child has.

The selfishness expressed by so many American women in not wanting to have children does not amaze me at all.

I see nothing selfish in someone NOT wanting something - including children. What's selfish is bringing children into the world that you cannot properly care for, just because you WANT them.

Good for the women who know they don't want children, for whatever reason, and make sure they don't have them.

The selfishness expressed by so many American women in not wanting to have children does not amaze me at all. To the contrary it is to be expected in our current culture when "I" and "ME" comes before any other word in the vocabulary of most people.

yes you did say thay - your own post - i am sorry you don't like the philosophy that women now have a choice on whether to be mothers or not - i think that is a good thing - and when men decide not to have kids do you question their motives?

I also said that too many women now have that mindset because we have encouraged that mindset. We have said think only of your own wishes. That is selfish and we encourage it. What is so good about that philosophy? If you like selfish people, all the more power to you.

What? We've encouraged the mindset for women to live their lives the way they see fit and not how you see fit?

You're very angry about something. I'd hope you'd be more angry about people bringing children into the world where they won't be taken care of properly, than women choosing not to have children if the reason is for "selfishness" as you see it. You say it's good for those women NOT to have children all the while verbally @!$%#-slapping them.

"We've encouraged the mindset for women to live their lives the way they see fit and not how you see fit?"

VB, you got that right.

Women are not child free because they would make terrible mothers. Where did that come from, judi? I have cared for many children in my life. Each one is special, and I meant as much to them as they did to me.

Check into the news for some terrible mothers, or ask the kids in foster care what brought them there.

No dookie man, I only have one, but DANG, she is so much work, and I'm told it will only get more intense...Not that I don't enjoy the work, but DANG. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do that.

Having or not having children is really not the main issue. It is why are we not having and raising or adopting children? Too few Americans are willing to go that mile.

You responded to a post saying that we have more births today than in the past by saying that too few are willing to have children? That doesn't make any sense -- except if one believes that only white Americans count and that they must contribute to overpopulating the world to drive back the hordes of "others."

At some point, America will fail, as a nation, and we will disburse and we will become like Rome, Egypt, the Mayans, etc

The Romans were brutal to their conquered peoples, murdering them by the thousands each and every year. Egypt was another conquering power that enslaved thousands, perhaps millions. The Mayans were wiped out by a conquering power, as were all Native Americans. The ability to conquer does not define a great nation. It is instead the mark of a tyranny. I would hope the US never goes down that path again.

Judi...any person born in this country is granted citizenship regardless of whether or not their parents are citizens. Your comment about whether they are illegal or citizens is ridiculous.

And the mayans were never really a unified nation...they were clusters of cities ruled by their own kings with similar, but not the same cultures.

I have never asked anyone "Why did you have children?".

Maybe you should. Maybe having to justify their decision even once would stop them from accousting other childfree women in the future.

Bottom line: any question about being childfree is rude and no one's business. Any woman who is asked such a question should not answer and should instead let the questioner know it is rude and none of their business.

Any woman who is asked such a question should not answer and should instead let the questioner know it is rude and none of their business.

My favorite response was given by (I think) Dear Abby:

"If you'll forvive me for not anwering that question, I'll forgive you for asking it."

That's perfect.

I have never asked anyone "Why did you have children?".

Maybe you should. Maybe having to justify their decision even once would stop them from accousting other childfree women in the future.

I've actually seen people quite stumped when asked that question. lol I mean, if someone asks me why I didn't have kids I immediately KNOW why, but some seem to have to really think about why they HAD them. Common answers seem to be, "Well, it's what you do," or "My wife wanted them." Occasionally, I've had someone say they love kids and wanted kids all their lives and couldn't wait to start a family, and did so as soon as they got married. That always seemed like a better answer to me than, "Well, it's what you're supposed to do." ;0)

God bless those that feel raising a child is their calling, more power to you.

In my experience of living in various places in the US and UK, most people who have children don't do it because it's their calling, they just do it because a) they got pregnant and/or b) they just think that's what they're supposed to do. I think if everybody had to make the deliberate effort to have a child - if they had to stop their lives and THINK about it, and then take deliberate steps other than the obvious (sex) to have them - there would be a whole lot more people of both genders choosing not to have children themselves.

But kudos to you for being part of the village!

You are right. Most people become parents by accident.

Or, for religious reasons. When I used to be a Catholic as a child, it was a mandate. In Ireland it is practically against the law (the Republic of Ireland) because of the die hard catholicism. Didn't make any difference if there was money or a husband who was a drunk and out of work, just make more Catholics!

The parents I had ended up having seven children. Those two together were not parenting material. The husband was mostly out of the picture, the wife extremely resentful, and had a few other qualities that were anti-nurturing. To say the least. Yet the father wanted an even twelve!

shannoscubie, I agree with you that a lot of folks just follow the crowd and think that is the way it is. Pressure from others often make folks follow the status quo as well. My parents wanted grandchildren and were disappointed when they knew it was not to be. I almost caved in but kept my resolve.

Well said in both of your posts this evening.

Hi, Judi. Ain't it great. Newsvine, Get smarter here. I have learned so much since I came. Even if it hasn't changed my opinion, at least it changed the way I see others.

Hey, Judi.

I do have to admit that comments against women who don't want kids are a bit of a hot button with me, since I'm childfree and have heard them all (mostly online, though, seldom in real life). In my case, I knew when I was about 9 years old that I didn't want kids and it has never had anything to do with putting "me" first (so the "selfish" lable really gets me), but something more visceral. I was born without a mommy gene, I think, and the whole idea of having and raising kids was just "icky" to me (at the age of 9), and that opinion has never changed. lol

hey VB - my daughter sounds just like you - she often says she just can't see the attraction that women have to babies - she has never wanted tohold them, play with them or even babysit - it just wasn't her - she accepts it when people call her narcissistic and selfish because she said for the most part they wouldn't understand if she did try to explain her true feelings

hey VB - my daughter sounds just like you - she often says she just can't see the attraction that women have to babies - she has never wanted tohold them, play with them or even babysit - it just wasn't her - she accepts it when people call her narcissistic and selfish because she said for the most part they wouldn't understand if she did try to explain her true feelings

I've known a lot of CF women who would rather be thought of as "selfish" than tell the truth about having no desire to have or be around kids much, because then people call them "child haters". Damned if we do, damned if we don't. ;0)

Vb - ain't it the truth - i guess we can't win - i feel bad for her because she is a giving person - works with troubled teens while attending college full time - she gives of her time to homeless shelters, women's clinics and still because she does not desire to experience "motherhood" she is an outcast in a way

judi f - I am happy you posted re: this thread

"Sometimes it pays to listen and read and learn."

That is a statement few people admit to, but I bet it happens more often than we realize. I am glad that you spoke up. It means a lot to me, since I am childfree and while considered somehow "wrong" for certain people, it is simply a different choice.

I also changed my mind. About you! In a good way. Thanks judi. Took awhile for me to respond but I am way behind around the vine.