Twice Convicted Murderer Executed for Raping & Drowning Woman in 1980

At least the US has the death penalty.
Australia doesn't, unfortunately.

You are correct. For there to be a deterrent effect on others, the punishment must occur proximate in time with the crime. This one will never murder again.

Give them two years to exhaust appeals. If still found guilty, carry out the punishment.

Seconded!

if it was such a deterrent, why does the US have the highest crime rate of the 'developed' world.

if it was such a deterrent, why does the US have the highest crime rate of the 'developed' world.

Thirty-one years on death row, with a chance of dying behind bars where you're guaranteed three hots and a cot before countless appeals expire? Why not murder somebody?

if it was such a deterrent, why does the US have the highest crime rate of the 'developed' world.

Works pretty well for China, they have ten times the population... but no "death row".

They just take you out back after you lose your case...

UNA_Lion

Thirty-one years on death row? Our justice system sucks.

Right, our justice system sucks because you don't like one aspect of it.

It is easy to mock the justice system from the outside. How many of you critics hold bar cards? How many of you have been wrongfully convicted of a crime?

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - William Blackstone

"Abraham drew near, and said, "Will you consume the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous within the city? Will you consume and not spare the place for the fifty righteous who are in it? ... What if ten are found there?" He [The Lord] said, "I will not destroy it for the ten's sake." - Bible (Genesis 18:23-32)

Right, our justice system sucks because you don't like one aspect of it.

Incorrect. There are a great many aspects I dislike about our "justice" system, though the topic of this seed is one of the more egregious examples.

It is easy to mock the justice system from the outside. How many of you critics hold bar cards? How many of you have been wrongfully convicted of a crime?

How many folks who complain about war have served in the Armed Forces or have engaged an enemy in a theater of combat?

Right, our justice system sucks because you don't like one aspect of it.

Yeah, 'cause that's exactly what he said. :eyeroll:

UNA_Lion

Incorrect. There are a great many aspects I dislike about our "justice" system, though the topic of this seed is one of the more egregious examples.

How so? Can you please explain exactly how our justice system failed in the case this article discussed?

How many folks who complain about war have served in the Armed Forces or have engaged an enemy in a theater of combat?

What does this question have to do with the discussion at hand? We are talking about your perceived issues with the American legal system.

If your question isn't an overt attempt to obfuscate, what point does it serve?

The questions I posed in my earlier post were inquiries directed at those posting in this thread, and directly pertain to those poster's experience with the American legal system. What you ask is off-topic, and irrelevant to the conversation.

Further, I didn't posit that only trained lawyers in good legal standing or those wrongfully convicted of a crime have any business participating in legal conversations. The purpose of my questions was to ascertain how many posters making negative comments about the US legal system have more than a casual understanding about how said system actually functions.

UNA_Lion

Thirty-one years on death row? Our justice system sucks.

YaddaYadda

Yeah, 'cause that's exactly what he said. :eyeroll:

YaddaYadda,

I don't see a nuanced, multi-point statement detailing UNA_Lion's many reasons for disliking the American justice system.

If you do, I implore you to please show me why it appears on your screen, and not mine.

It is childish to think that a complex system is bad for no reason other than one's dislike of a particular outcome. The American legal system is an incredibly complex system, but it is that way on purpose. We have one of the best, fairest legal systems in the world.

I don't see a nuanced, multi-point statement detailing UNA_Lion's many reasons for disliking the American justice system.

As UNA_Lion pointed out, our justice system does indeed "suck" because there is no excuse for someone to languish on death row for 31 years. Did he say that the entire justice system sucks? No, he did not. Does this aspect of it suck? Most certainly. That's his opinion and mine was well.

How many folks who complain about war have served in the Armed Forces or have engaged an enemy in a theater of combat?

What does this question have to do with the discussion at hand? We are talking about your perceived issues with the American legal system.

It's an excellent analogy if you only think about it. It's a perfectly legitimate argument.

We have one of the best, fairest legal systems in the world.

Neither one of us is disagreeing with that. But to ignore the fact that there are aspects of it that "suck" and need to be reformed is to stick your head in the sand.

YaddaYadda

Did he say that the entire justice system sucks?

UNA_Lion made a general, unqualified statement that our justice system sucks. If he meant something else, he should have phrased his statement differantly. I addressed what was written.

That's his opinion and mine was well.

So, your saying you either speak for him, or you are him.

Are you a sock puppet, a conjoined twin, or psychic? How can you possibly know his opinion beyond what's been stated?

It's an excellent analogy if you only think about it. It's a perfectly legitimate argument.

Please explain how?

If UNA_Lion's question isn't an overt attempt to obfuscate, what point does it serve?

The questions I posed in my earlier post were inquiries directed at those posting in this thread, and directly pertain to those poster's experience with the American legal system. What you ask is off-topic, and irrelevant to the conversation.

Further, I didn't posit that only trained lawyers in good legal standing or those wrongfully convicted of a crime have any business participating in legal conversations. The purpose of my questions was to ascertain how many posters making negative comments about the US legal system have more than a casual understanding about how said system actually functions.

Neither one of us is disagreeing with that. But to ignore the fact that there are aspects of it that "suck" and need to be reformed is to stick your head in the sand.

You are mistaken. Your understanding of the situation is either lacking, or misinformed. The way the system works isn't arbitrary, or fundamentally flawed. On what basis do you posit that the system needs to be reformed? Do you understand the specific details of the appeals process, in general, and as specifically apply to this case? If so, I would love to read your well-informed opinion.

How so? Can you please explain exactly how our justice system failed in the case this article discussed?

A man spent thirty-one years on death row. That is a travesty of justice to anyone but perhaps a career lawyer. Are you a lawyer?

What does this question have to do with the discussion at hand? We are talking about your perceived issues with the American legal system.

It pointed out the absurdity of your own statement:

It is easy to mock the justice system from the outside. How many of you critics hold bar cards? How many of you have been wrongfully convicted of a crime?

Whether I'm a worthless lawyer or not (and yes, to me most lawyers are worthless), I have to live in a society shaped and ruled by them (most national-level career politic-ans are lawyers). - thus I'm hardly on the outside.

If your question isn't an overt attempt to obfuscate, what point does it serve?

Already addressed above.

The questions I posed in my earlier post were inquiries directed at those posting in this thread, and directly pertain to those poster's experience with the American legal system. What you ask is off-topic, and irrelevant to the conversation.

It was a perfectly valid analogy, your commentary notwithstanding.

It is childish to think that a complex system is bad for no reason other than ones dislike of a particular outcome. The American legal system is an incredibly complex system, but it is that way on purpose. We have one of the best, fairest legal systems in the world.

Again, you circle to your initial assessment with that first sentence:

Right, our justice system sucks because you don't like one aspect of it.

Again, you're wrong. I could find all kinds of cases showcasing the absurdity of our justice system, but you appear to be bright enough to use a search engine.

UNA_Lion

A man spent thirty-one years on death row. That is a travesty of justice to anyone but perhaps a career lawyer.

Do you know why the man spent thirty-one years on death row? Do you understand the details of his case, and subsequent appeals? They are a matter of public record, I am sure you are bright enough to use a search engine.

Are you a lawyer?

Why does it matter? You have demonstrated your bigotry against attorneys.

It pointed out the absurdity of your own statement:

The statement you appear to refute is: It is easy to mock the justice system from the outside.

I then asked two questions about those posting negative comments on this thread.

My statement stands. Can you demonstrate that you understand the US legal system enough to make an informed observation about what works, and what does not?

Your open disdain for lawyers implies you have no appreciation for what they do, or real understanding of the law. Without understanding the law your opinion of what works, and what doesn't work, in our legal system is predicated on ignorance. If your opinions are predicated on ignorance why are you sharing them in a public forum?

Whether I'm a worthless lawyer or not (and yes, to me most lawyers are worthless), I have to live in a society shaped and ruled by them (most national-level career politic-ans are lawyers). - thus I'm hardly on the outside.

How much of a legal education do you have? How much case law have you read? If you have more than a cursory understanding of the legal system why don't you elaborate on what specifically is wrong with this case, and the appeals process? Your unwillingness to do so implies that you don't understand why things operate in the manner they do.

I could find all kinds of cases showcasing the absurdity of our justice system, but you appear to be bright enough to use a search engine.

Are you suggesting that corner cases (statistical outliers) should determine general, legal authority?

Do you know why the man spent thirty-one years on death row? Do you understand the details of his case, and subsequent appeals? They are a matter of public record, I am sure you are bright enough to use a search engine.

I don't care. It's a travesty of justice (except to career lawyers), and despite your refusal to identify your profession, your replies demonstrate that you're obvously a lawyer and thus offensive to me. We're done here. Good day.

UNA_Lion

I don't care.

That is a very mature, and eloquent, position to take.

It's a travesty of justice (except to career lawyers), and despite your refusal to identify your profession, your replies demonstrate that you're obvously a lawyer and thus offensive to me.

Did a lawyer bad-touch you as a child? Did a lawyer kick your puppy to death?

Seriously, you have a pretty messed-up, and uninformed, opinion of lawyers.

That you have decided that I am a lawyer based on my defense of the American legal system says a great deal about you. I am starting to see why your arguments all tend to fall flat. You should consider improving your logic and reasoning skills. They will aid you greatly in future conversations.

We're done here. Good day.

Good day to you too, UNA_Lion. I really do wish you had a well-reasoned opinion to defend.

...another time perhaps.

Are you a sock puppet, a conjoined twin, or psychic?

You can disagree with what I say, but do NOT insult me. You talk about maturity in #2.17, yet you call me a sock puppet? You have zero credibility with me, not that you ever gave a crap about that in the first place.

Please explain how?

No. Think for yourself.

...what point does it serve?

Apparently one that you can't grasp since you've asked this twice now.

The way the system works isn't arbitrary, or fundamentally flawed.

Your opinion only. Emphasis mine, by the way.

How much of a legal education do you have?

And really, what the hell does that have to do with someone forming or having an opinion on the death penalty or our judicial system? That's the same as questioning voters, "How much of a political education do you have?" before they form enough of an opinion to vote. Ridiculous.

Did a lawyer bad-touch you as a child? Did a lawyer kick your puppy to death?

More "maturity" from Zen-Hydra...

Me

Are you a sock puppet, a conjoined twin, or psychic? How can you possibly know his opinion beyond what's been stated?

YaddaYadda

You can disagree with what I say, but do NOT insult me. You talk about maturity in #2.17, yet you call me a sock puppet?

I'm not the person who claimed to have the same opinion as another poster.

I also asked you a question in jest, and never outright called you a sock puppet. If you are taking things personally, you should consider taking a break from heated discussions.

You have zero credibility with me, not that you ever gave a crap about that in the first place.

Then you make a statement like this which implies psychic powers again. How can you possibly know what I give a crap about?

Me

Please explain how?

...what point does it serve?

YaddaYadda

No. Think for yourself.

Apparently one that you can't grasp since you've asked this twice now.

If you can't support your arguments, then they carry no weight. If UNA_Lion's analogy was so poignant, then you should have no trouble explaining why. Since neither UNA_Lion, nor you have been willing to articulate the point, I can only assume it is because you can't do so.

Your opinion only. Emphasis mine, by the way.

Actually, it is not only my opinion. It is an opinion shared by most of those who have a more than superficial understanding of the US legal system.

And really, what the hell does that have to do with someone forming or having an opinion on the death penalty or our judicial system?

It has nothing to do with John Q. Public's capacity to have an opinion about these matters, and everything to do with John Q. Public's ability to have an informed opinion about them.

That's the same as questioning voters, "How much of a political education do you have?" before they form enough of an opinion to vote. Ridiculous.

...which is why we have an Electoral College, because the founding fathers understood that Farmer Joe couldn't make an informed decision about political matters with no formal education.

An ignorant opinion should carry less weight than an informed one.

More "maturity" from Zen-Hydra...

So levity = immaturity in you eyes? I feel sorry for you if you are indeed as humorless as you come across.

I'm not the person who claimed to have the same opinion as another poster.

Lots of people have the same opinions. Doesn't make them "sock puppets". Way to justify a personal attack there.

Actually, it is not only my opinion. It is an opinion shared by most of those who have a more than superficial understanding of the US legal system.

Oh, wait! Does that mean you're a "sock puppet"? /s

If you can't support your arguments

It's an analogy, not anything you can "google".

So levity = immaturity in you eyes?

No. Immaturity = immaturity in my eyes.

We're getting way off topic now, so I'm through with our little "debate".

YaddaYadda

We're getting way off topic now, so I'm through with our little "debate".

That's fine. We weren't really having a debate. To have a debate both sides have to support there points, and you never demonstrated an ability (or willingness) to back your spurious notions.

Have a nice day. Cheers!

Exactly.

It's called @!$%#ing punishment.

Animals like that don't deserve "rehabilitation" or "treatment"

The "treatment" for such actions should be a shot in the paw...

Don't you people have jobs?

No. AAAAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm sorry. I just couldn't resist.

If you believe we are ever going to have a perfect system, you are fooling yourself. Do you think the appeals are unlimited now? The question is where do you place the limit.

It is bad enough once when someone murders another.. then to let them out to murder again.. that's worse.. people like this guy in the article should of been put to death the first time around.. but we are in this pattern of coddling them.. allowing them to breathe, eat, sleep, and then release them to do it all over again.. Similar to child predators.. How many children is enough ? Some of these scum use the prison's revolving door to the point of wearing it out.

We cannot continue on this road.. not only for the dollars and cents part of the equation but for the Logical perspective of it.. No one in their right mind wants to go to jail.. but murderers and child predators are not in a sane mindset.. No sane person will kill another human being... there is only a few exceptions to that rule.. military action, shoot out with police, and maybe one or two others..

It is a war out there.. and until mamby-pambies of this world realize this.. we're going to play Russian Roulette with lives.

One needs to send a strong and direct message to all who perpetrate a crime.. That our laws will be swift and just in trying them, and more so the consequence for portraying a crime against the people of this country.

How many children and people have to be hurt or die? Because some idiots want to protect a criminal more than the victim was protected? I think people have this completely arse backwards... Criminal elements hang out with others of their ilk... if one associates with a criminal or hangs out with elements that would do wrong by others.. then one is guilty by association.. People who respect others and would not think of hurting another person do not hang out with any person or persons ..such as gangs.. to play checkers/chess and or video games..So .. if someone hangs out with those that are more associated with criminal actions.. then it is best to get ones arse away from them.. their judgment is poor if they do not.

The message of the crime that a criminal does.. is that the citizens of the country will not take this crapola any more.. that if they act to do such against us.. then their lives will be cut short when it comes that judgment day.